'First' Battersea riot-related eviction notice served by Wandsworth Council

Wandsworth Guardian: 'First' riot-related eviction notice served 'First' riot-related eviction notice served

A council tenant whose son has appeared in court charged in connection with the Battersea riots has today been served with an eviction notice.

The tenant is believed to be the first in the country to now be facing the prospect of losing their council-owned home as a result of Monday night’s rioting and looting in St John's Road and Lavender Hill.

The process will see Wandsworth Council apply through the courts for the eviction to be granted - with the ultimate decision resting with a judge.

Neither the tenant nor their son can be named at this stage for legal reasons.

Council leader, Councillor Ravi Govindia, said the authority's housing department was working swiftly to assess whether to take action on tenants undergoing magistrates courts hearings.

He added: "Our officers will continue to work with the courts to establish the identities of other council tenants or members of their households as more cases are processed in the coming days and weeks.

"Most residents on our housing estates are decent law-abiding citizens who will have been sickened at the scenes they witnessed on their TV screens this week. Many will have seen their places of work trashed at the hands of these rioters.

"As much as anything else we owe it to them to send out a strong signal that this kind of violence will not be tolerated."

Tenants who take part in a range of specified criminal and anti-social activities can be evicted as this breaches council tenancy agreements.

• What do you think? Let us know by emailing imason@london.newsquest.co.uk or leave a comment below.

Comments (34)

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4:39pm Fri 12 Aug 11

Twickenham Bob says...

This speaks volumes about the moral compass of those at the top of Wandsworth Council.
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Though the looters have done wrong and ought to be punished it’s for the courts to decide the punishment, after a free and fair trial. Punishment should be equal – why should one person lose their house and not another?
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Double Punishment is wrong, as is collective punishment. I thought that was something that happens in North Korea, and was a favourite of the Nazi Germany. As someone who cherishes the rule of law this sends a chill up my spine.
This speaks volumes about the moral compass of those at the top of Wandsworth Council. . Though the looters have done wrong and ought to be punished it’s for the courts to decide the punishment, after a free and fair trial. Punishment should be equal – why should one person lose their house and not another? . Double Punishment is wrong, as is collective punishment. I thought that was something that happens in North Korea, and was a favourite of the Nazi Germany. As someone who cherishes the rule of law this sends a chill up my spine. Twickenham Bob
  • Score: 0

10:49pm Fri 12 Aug 11

mallovesbikes says...

If you don't like the double punishment then don't sign the tennancy agreement. simples
If you don't like the double punishment then don't sign the tennancy agreement. simples mallovesbikes
  • Score: 0

10:54pm Fri 12 Aug 11

patand says...

The Nazis in Germany had a name for this - Sippenhaft. Shame on Wandsworth Council!
The Nazis in Germany had a name for this - Sippenhaft. Shame on Wandsworth Council! patand
  • Score: 0

1:52am Sat 13 Aug 11

mrjosh says...

I think this is disgusting behaviour from Wandsworth council, highlighting just how removed they are from having any understanding on this situation. How is making a family homeless going to enhance this situation? This will only bring more divide, segregation, and pain for the family. Were the MP's who "looted" the expenses sent eviction notices? I didnt think so.
I think this is disgusting behaviour from Wandsworth council, highlighting just how removed they are from having any understanding on this situation. How is making a family homeless going to enhance this situation? This will only bring more divide, segregation, and pain for the family. Were the MP's who "looted" the expenses sent eviction notices? I didnt think so. mrjosh
  • Score: 0

3:53am Sat 13 Aug 11

DaftAida says...

This is so obviously wrong, they're just testing the waters. I heard a spokesman for WBC and their argument appears to rest on the tenancy agreement and the alleged breach thereof.

However, the mother could never have anticipated the riots or the fact that her son was caught up in them. She signed the agreement in good faith.

Fact is that the majority of parents have had to relinquish influence/control of their children to the state and its media indoctrination. When the incessant advertising and brand placement pays off in terms of opportunistic looting, it is so very convenient to hold parents 100% responsible. Those captured on film for mainstream broadcast and commentary were, for the most part, bored, frustrated and restless youth tired of all the bs. It is as the result of failed policies which has made rioting into a form of sport.

Those who instigated the co-ordinated anarchy and those who gave orders for police to hold off in the initial unfolding of events, remain unseen.

Nonetheless, it is wrong for WBC or any local public service (fast becoming 'authorities') to scapegoate this woman on a whim. Especially since the ASB evictions take heaven and earth to materialise, leaving so many neighbours living in misery.
This is so obviously wrong, they're just testing the waters. I heard a spokesman for WBC and their argument appears to rest on the tenancy agreement and the alleged breach thereof. However, the mother could never have anticipated the riots or the fact that her son was caught up in them. She signed the agreement in good faith. Fact is that the majority of parents have had to relinquish influence/control of their children to the state and its media indoctrination. When the incessant advertising and brand placement pays off in terms of opportunistic looting, it is so very convenient to hold parents 100% responsible. Those captured on film for mainstream broadcast and commentary were, for the most part, bored, frustrated and restless youth tired of all the bs. It is as the result of failed policies which has made rioting into a form of sport. Those who instigated the co-ordinated anarchy and those who gave orders for police to hold off in the initial unfolding of events, remain unseen. Nonetheless, it is wrong for WBC or any local public service (fast becoming 'authorities') to scapegoate this woman on a whim. Especially since the ASB evictions take heaven and earth to materialise, leaving so many neighbours living in misery. DaftAida
  • Score: 0

10:03am Sat 13 Aug 11

Carolpeters says...

Oh for goodness sake as if anyone will actually be evicted. Don't waste your time thinking about it- there's no point as it ain't gonna happen.
Oh for goodness sake as if anyone will actually be evicted. Don't waste your time thinking about it- there's no point as it ain't gonna happen. Carolpeters
  • Score: 0

12:28pm Sat 13 Aug 11

wandsworth_mike says...

This is so ridiculous and a typical tory knee jerk response.

Firstly, how is making a criminal destitute going to solve anything? This is pushing a person onto another area and making the criminal their problem. Or, the person becomes homeless and the council have to assist them under homeless legislation.

This is also probably contrary to human rights legislation, and let us be clear - the house of thieves in westminster also looted plasma TV's from the taxpayer - by putting them onto expenses. MPs are the same rat like criminals as looters - it's just done on paper.

Furthermore, where do you draw the line on evicting criminals? Will those who shoplift lose their council homes? I guess they can go straight onto housing benefit and then live off private landlords paying more rent costing the taxpayer even more.

What a stupid idea - it will probably be challenged in the courts and Wandsworth will have to pay legal costs!
This is so ridiculous and a typical tory knee jerk response. Firstly, how is making a criminal destitute going to solve anything? This is pushing a person onto another area and making the criminal their problem. Or, the person becomes homeless and the council have to assist them under homeless legislation. This is also probably contrary to human rights legislation, and let us be clear - the house of thieves in westminster also looted plasma TV's from the taxpayer - by putting them onto expenses. MPs are the same rat like criminals as looters - it's just done on paper. Furthermore, where do you draw the line on evicting criminals? Will those who shoplift lose their council homes? I guess they can go straight onto housing benefit and then live off private landlords paying more rent costing the taxpayer even more. What a stupid idea - it will probably be challenged in the courts and Wandsworth will have to pay legal costs! wandsworth_mike
  • Score: 0

12:43pm Sat 13 Aug 11

wandsworth_mike says...

You make it sound like it's some sort of easy option, your comment is extremely simplistic.
Collective punishment goes against natural justice, and double punishment is actually a form of social cleansing because there is a direct connection and cycle between poverty, unemployment, social deprivation and crime. Social exclusion and marginalization in society are all issues that councils like Wandsworth would rather brush under the carpet.

Also, how is the child of a tenant committing a crime able to have their parents evicted due to their behaviour? Whilst a parent is legally responsible some parents have no control and cannot control their children. In this case, I am sure wandsworth council can give the option of having those kids taken into care - at the cost to the Wandsworth council and taxpayer? Perhaps then Wandsworth can see is they can do a better job at 'controlling' these children?

Attempting to evict a tenant whose family member is a criminal is wrong and illegal - this again is tory socio-economic cleansing by stealth.
If every criminal in the UK was made homeless by councils the streets would be full of criminals and society would be more dangerous, not less. I don't want to have angry homeless criminals on the streets thanks, I'd rather they were less angry and being housed.

Simple tory 'solutions' never work - if they had their way we would all be living in some dickensian era again.
You make it sound like it's some sort of easy option, your comment is extremely simplistic. Collective punishment goes against natural justice, and double punishment is actually a form of social cleansing because there is a direct connection and cycle between poverty, unemployment, social deprivation and crime. Social exclusion and marginalization in society are all issues that councils like Wandsworth would rather brush under the carpet. Also, how is the child of a tenant committing a crime able to have their parents evicted due to their behaviour? Whilst a parent is legally responsible some parents have no control and cannot control their children. In this case, I am sure wandsworth council can give the option of having those kids taken into care - at the cost to the Wandsworth council and taxpayer? Perhaps then Wandsworth can see is they can do a better job at 'controlling' these children? Attempting to evict a tenant whose family member is a criminal is wrong and illegal - this again is tory socio-economic cleansing by stealth. If every criminal in the UK was made homeless by councils the streets would be full of criminals and society would be more dangerous, not less. I don't want to have angry homeless criminals on the streets thanks, I'd rather they were less angry and being housed. Simple tory 'solutions' never work - if they had their way we would all be living in some dickensian era again. wandsworth_mike
  • Score: 0

12:48pm Sat 13 Aug 11

wandsworth_mike says...

patand wrote:
The Nazis in Germany had a name for this - Sippenhaft. Shame on Wandsworth Council!
I agree - a disgraceful council run by weirdos who have no concept of social issues.

Criminals need to be rehabilitated and processed though a justice system, not abandoned by society and left to roam the streets homeless. They will simply turn to mugging and robbing - make no mistaken about that. The police can even analyze spikes in crime linked to drug seizures/shortages - the price goes up and people steal more from cars, shops, mug/rob to fuel their addiction.

If you take away housing they will simply roam the streets committing more crime and end up in jail more, costing the UK taxpayer over 500 pounds a night to stay in jail - we will all end up paying for it. Tories are obsessed with 'low' taxes - they should therefore consider their ridiculous policy and it's financial costs in the longer term. This makes great political headlines, great soundbites and is nothing but political grandstanding by incompetent wandsworth councillors who think they have more power then they do. Let the case go to Strasbourg and shame the UK - yet again.
[quote][p][bold]patand[/bold] wrote: The Nazis in Germany had a name for this - Sippenhaft. Shame on Wandsworth Council![/p][/quote]I agree - a disgraceful council run by weirdos who have no concept of social issues. Criminals need to be rehabilitated and processed though a justice system, not abandoned by society and left to roam the streets homeless. They will simply turn to mugging and robbing - make no mistaken about that. The police can even analyze spikes in crime linked to drug seizures/shortages - the price goes up and people steal more from cars, shops, mug/rob to fuel their addiction. If you take away housing they will simply roam the streets committing more crime and end up in jail more, costing the UK taxpayer over 500 pounds a night to stay in jail - we will all end up paying for it. Tories are obsessed with 'low' taxes - they should therefore consider their ridiculous policy and it's financial costs in the longer term. This makes great political headlines, great soundbites and is nothing but political grandstanding by incompetent wandsworth councillors who think they have more power then they do. Let the case go to Strasbourg and shame the UK - yet again. wandsworth_mike
  • Score: 0

12:59pm Sat 13 Aug 11

legaleagle99 says...

I feel sorry for anyone who is narrow minded enough to believe that this will help - it is little wonder this Country is falling apart.

No one condones the rioting but we need to remember many of our MP's are far from squeaky clean. David Cameron and Boris Johnson belonged to an exclusive Oxford club in which members engage in anti-social behaviour, in particular, damaging restuarants, before asking mummy and daddy to pay for the damage. This is unacceptable behavior - however they believe that their behaviour in this regard was irrelevant because they were young. Louise Mensch is another example, she admits that she may have taken drugs because people make mistakes when they are young etc.

It appears that there is one set of rules for our MP's and their hangers on and another set of rules for the general public. In my opinion, many of our MP's should be ashamed by some of their comments over the past week.

Eviciting somone from their house is not the answer - it is inhumane. Perhaps it is merely an excuse to deal with the lack of housing issue. I would suggest that our MP's and Civil Servants reconsider their options and behaviour in this regard.
I feel sorry for anyone who is narrow minded enough to believe that this will help - it is little wonder this Country is falling apart. No one condones the rioting but we need to remember many of our MP's are far from squeaky clean. David Cameron and Boris Johnson belonged to an exclusive Oxford club in which members engage in anti-social behaviour, in particular, damaging restuarants, before asking mummy and daddy to pay for the damage. This is unacceptable behavior - however they believe that their behaviour in this regard was irrelevant because they were young. Louise Mensch is another example, she admits that she may have taken drugs because people make mistakes when they are young etc. It appears that there is one set of rules for our MP's and their hangers on and another set of rules for the general public. In my opinion, many of our MP's should be ashamed by some of their comments over the past week. Eviciting somone from their house is not the answer - it is inhumane. Perhaps it is merely an excuse to deal with the lack of housing issue. I would suggest that our MP's and Civil Servants reconsider their options and behaviour in this regard. legaleagle99
  • Score: 0

1:23pm Sat 13 Aug 11

Tigermoth says...

I am heartened to read the comments above. Of course, it's ridiculous to evict whole families because one member has broken the law, ie guilty by association. Wandsworth have broken all sorts of Govt regulations to do with housing themselves. All they care about is emptying peoples bins and charging as little as possible.
I am heartened to read the comments above. Of course, it's ridiculous to evict whole families because one member has broken the law, ie guilty by association. Wandsworth have broken all sorts of Govt regulations to do with housing themselves. All they care about is emptying peoples bins and charging as little as possible. Tigermoth
  • Score: 0

4:10pm Sat 13 Aug 11

wayneo says...

This eviction notice will not see the light of day, it is merely posturing and chest thumping by Councillors who should really look at their own behviour and moral compass before opening their gobs.
!
First and foremost,HABEUS CORPUS, there is not a conviction for the Wandsworth family, the TENANT, in this case the mother, is highly unlikely to have breached her tenancy agreement when in fact it is the actions of her son and besides, until there is a guilty plea or a conviction in a Court of law,there remains an allegation until then, how this man coul have a fair trial now anyway, is unlikely.
2) it is not the responsibility of a Council to punish, it is for the Courts 3) The contract (tenancy agreement), is likely to include a provision of behaviour for the area within which the resident lives.
!
If people really want to see how their Country has been dismantled, pillaged and robbed of its future, then look no further than your own Councils and Politicians.
This eviction notice will not see the light of day, it is merely posturing and chest thumping by Councillors who should really look at their own behviour and moral compass before opening their gobs. ! First and foremost,HABEUS CORPUS, there is not a conviction for the Wandsworth family, the TENANT, in this case the mother, is highly unlikely to have breached her tenancy agreement when in fact it is the actions of her son and besides, until there is a guilty plea or a conviction in a Court of law,there remains an allegation until then, how this man coul have a fair trial now anyway, is unlikely. 2) it is not the responsibility of a Council to punish, it is for the Courts 3) The contract (tenancy agreement), is likely to include a provision of behaviour for the area within which the resident lives. ! If people really want to see how their Country has been dismantled, pillaged and robbed of its future, then look no further than your own Councils and Politicians. wayneo
  • Score: 0

4:16pm Sat 13 Aug 11

wayneo says...

mallovesbikes wrote:
If you don't like the double punishment then don't sign the tennancy agreement. simples
The 'tennancy' agreement would unlikely have a clause stating that you will lose your home if you children obtain a criminal conviction.
[quote][p][bold]mallovesbikes[/bold] wrote: If you don't like the double punishment then don't sign the tennancy agreement. simples[/p][/quote]The 'tennancy' [sic] agreement would unlikely have a clause stating that you will lose your home if you children obtain a criminal conviction. wayneo
  • Score: 0

4:19pm Sat 13 Aug 11

wayneo says...

legaleagle99 wrote:
I feel sorry for anyone who is narrow minded enough to believe that this will help - it is little wonder this Country is falling apart. No one condones the rioting but we need to remember many of our MP's are far from squeaky clean. David Cameron and Boris Johnson belonged to an exclusive Oxford club in which members engage in anti-social behaviour, in particular, damaging restuarants, before asking mummy and daddy to pay for the damage. This is unacceptable behavior - however they believe that their behaviour in this regard was irrelevant because they were young. Louise Mensch is another example, she admits that she may have taken drugs because people make mistakes when they are young etc. It appears that there is one set of rules for our MP's and their hangers on and another set of rules for the general public. In my opinion, many of our MP's should be ashamed by some of their comments over the past week. Eviciting somone from their house is not the answer - it is inhumane. Perhaps it is merely an excuse to deal with the lack of housing issue. I would suggest that our MP's and Civil Servants reconsider their options and behaviour in this regard.
Very well said"
[quote][p][bold]legaleagle99[/bold] wrote: I feel sorry for anyone who is narrow minded enough to believe that this will help - it is little wonder this Country is falling apart. No one condones the rioting but we need to remember many of our MP's are far from squeaky clean. David Cameron and Boris Johnson belonged to an exclusive Oxford club in which members engage in anti-social behaviour, in particular, damaging restuarants, before asking mummy and daddy to pay for the damage. This is unacceptable behavior - however they believe that their behaviour in this regard was irrelevant because they were young. Louise Mensch is another example, she admits that she may have taken drugs because people make mistakes when they are young etc. It appears that there is one set of rules for our MP's and their hangers on and another set of rules for the general public. In my opinion, many of our MP's should be ashamed by some of their comments over the past week. Eviciting somone from their house is not the answer - it is inhumane. Perhaps it is merely an excuse to deal with the lack of housing issue. I would suggest that our MP's and Civil Servants reconsider their options and behaviour in this regard.[/p][/quote]Very well said" wayneo
  • Score: 0

5:46pm Sat 13 Aug 11

ajbelton says...

I am a Wandsworth Labour councillor, name Tony Belton and I thought your readers would be interested in the following story:

I have been round with Maita de la Calva, the to-be evicted Wandsworth tenant, for the last couple of hours and this is some of her story.

I started at the community gardening project on the Doddington Estate at about 10.40. There were 20+ people from Tower Hamlets, Lambeth and mainly the Battersea community, including of course WoW (Women of Wandsworth). I raised the Daily Mail eviction story and lots wanted to talk about it but WoW knew the lady concerned and knew how to get in touch with her. That in itself says a lot because WoW is the nearest thing to civic society that exists in Battersea and some might call them the nearest thing to a Big Society there is in Battersea. They of course would never dream of describing themselves as such. They told me that Maita works for a charity and was well known to them. Within seconds I had her mobile number.

I texted her and arranged a meeting. When I got there the Mail on Sunday was there and cameramen were outside filming the block. So what of Maita?

She is from Santander, Spain, and came here in 1986 when I guess she would have been about 20. She found herself in an abusive relationship, which broke up 5/6 years ago (all this was told to the Mail on Sunday so I am not revealing any private info). She has the “notorious” 18 year old son Daniel and an 8 year old daughter. The family go to church every Sunday at the Shaftesbury Christian Centre.

Maita is a trustee of a charity called Storm, which is based on the Doddington estate (which for those who might not know is just outside the most deprived ward in Wandsworth, but is itself probably the most deprived estate in the Borough). Storm helps, as a support group, the unemployed to get jobs. It does work with ESOL (English for Speakers of Other Languages). She and Daniel do work for another charity called CHEERS (Comfort, Hope, Energy, Encouragement and Rebuilding – don’t know what the S stands for!), which helps single parents. Maita also teaches flamenco dancing, though I don’t recall exactly where.

Daniel volunteers for Regenerate UK, which is a Christian Youth organisation which runs a “play bus”, which tours estates in the World’s End, Roehampton and Balham. It also encourages kids to get off the streets, to study and to listen to their parents.

Maita told me her son’s version of Tuesday night’s events, which I think I probably should not tell because I suspect it is sub judice. Suffice to say that IF his version is true then as a result of going to meet his girlfriend, who works in a charity shop in Northcote Road, he and she got fairly innocently mixed up in a crowd event.

His case will be heard at SW Magistrates Court on Wednesday. I have volunteered to give character reference but of course I can only do so at third hand and so it may be pointless.

How would eviction of this family help social cohesion in London? I will certainly be raising this issue in Council.

Yours sincerely
Tony Belton, Latchmere Labour Councillor
I am a Wandsworth Labour councillor, name Tony Belton and I thought your readers would be interested in the following story: I have been round with Maita de la Calva, the to-be evicted Wandsworth tenant, for the last couple of hours and this is some of her story. I started at the community gardening project on the Doddington Estate at about 10.40. There were 20+ people from Tower Hamlets, Lambeth and mainly the Battersea community, including of course WoW (Women of Wandsworth). I raised the Daily Mail eviction story and lots wanted to talk about it but WoW knew the lady concerned and knew how to get in touch with her. That in itself says a lot because WoW is the nearest thing to civic society that exists in Battersea and some might call them the nearest thing to a Big Society there is in Battersea. They of course would never dream of describing themselves as such. They told me that Maita works for a charity and was well known to them. Within seconds I had her mobile number. I texted her and arranged a meeting. When I got there the Mail on Sunday was there and cameramen were outside filming the block. So what of Maita? She is from Santander, Spain, and came here in 1986 when I guess she would have been about 20. She found herself in an abusive relationship, which broke up 5/6 years ago (all this was told to the Mail on Sunday so I am not revealing any private info). She has the “notorious” 18 year old son Daniel and an 8 year old daughter. The family go to church every Sunday at the Shaftesbury Christian Centre. Maita is a trustee of a charity called Storm, which is based on the Doddington estate (which for those who might not know is just outside the most deprived ward in Wandsworth, but is itself probably the most deprived estate in the Borough). Storm helps, as a support group, the unemployed to get jobs. It does work with ESOL (English for Speakers of Other Languages). She and Daniel do work for another charity called CHEERS (Comfort, Hope, Energy, Encouragement and Rebuilding – don’t know what the S stands for!), which helps single parents. Maita also teaches flamenco dancing, though I don’t recall exactly where. Daniel volunteers for Regenerate UK, which is a Christian Youth organisation which runs a “play bus”, which tours estates in the World’s End, Roehampton and Balham. It also encourages kids to get off the streets, to study and to listen to their parents. Maita told me her son’s version of Tuesday night’s events, which I think I probably should not tell because I suspect it is sub judice. Suffice to say that IF his version is true then as a result of going to meet his girlfriend, who works in a charity shop in Northcote Road, he and she got fairly innocently mixed up in a crowd event. His case will be heard at SW Magistrates Court on Wednesday. I have volunteered to give character reference but of course I can only do so at third hand and so it may be pointless. How would eviction of this family help social cohesion in London? I will certainly be raising this issue in Council. Yours sincerely Tony Belton, Latchmere Labour Councillor ajbelton
  • Score: 0

8:55pm Sat 13 Aug 11

StuartBennett says...

..and they wonder why some people rioted in the first place!
this is disgracefull as well as theres no mention of the fact that theres a younger sister who it will impact as well.
Does this mean the polititions that stole our tax money through 'expenses' will get evicted as well?? or does social responsibility only apply to the poor?
****'s
..and they wonder why some people rioted in the first place! this is disgracefull as well as theres no mention of the fact that theres a younger sister who it will impact as well. Does this mean the polititions that stole our tax money through 'expenses' will get evicted as well?? or does social responsibility only apply to the poor? ****'s StuartBennett
  • Score: 0

10:57pm Sat 13 Aug 11

SLondonRes says...

Tony Belton, would you like to know what went on that night? Hoodies running in and out of the side streets all night. People terrorised in their own homes. Shops all closed down early. Helicopters flying around, police sirens screaming, chasing what I saw as marauding bands of kids up and down Battersea Park Road. I also happen to know there were police with battering rams at Doddington - and there are CCTV cameras on and around the estate. Did it ever occur to you that it would be difficult for the police to have picked this kid unless he was caught red-handed with loot or shopped? And you want to be a character witness on the say-so of the kid's mum who you'd never even met before? You have been on the Council since 1971 and the Labour Leader for the last 27 out of 35 years and what have we got in this area as a result of your "leadership"? Run down area full of vandals, burglars, car thieves, murderers and drug dealers. You live between the Commons! I think I speak for all the law-abiding residents of Doddington as well as the wider Queenstown Ward - nobody here wants to "socially cohese" with criminals and thugs. Here's an idea - why don't you house them all in the posh street where you live, then you can "socially cohese" with them to your heart's content.
Tony Belton, would you like to know what went on that night? Hoodies running in and out of the side streets all night. People terrorised in their own homes. Shops all closed down early. Helicopters flying around, police sirens screaming, chasing what I saw as marauding bands of kids up and down Battersea Park Road. I also happen to know there were police with battering rams at Doddington - and there are CCTV cameras on and around the estate. Did it ever occur to you that it would be difficult for the police to have picked this kid unless he was caught red-handed with loot or shopped? And you want to be a character witness on the say-so of the kid's mum who you'd never even met before? You have been on the Council since 1971 and the Labour Leader for the last 27 out of 35 years and what have we got in this area as a result of your "leadership"? Run down area full of vandals, burglars, car thieves, murderers and drug dealers. You live between the Commons! I think I speak for all the law-abiding residents of Doddington as well as the wider Queenstown Ward - nobody here wants to "socially cohese" with criminals and thugs. Here's an idea - why don't you house them all in the posh street where you live, then you can "socially cohese" with them to your heart's content. SLondonRes
  • Score: 0

11:37pm Sat 13 Aug 11

wayneo says...

SLondonRes wrote:
Tony Belton, would you like to know what went on that night? Hoodies running in and out of the side streets all night. People terrorised in their own homes. Shops all closed down early. Helicopters flying around, police sirens screaming, chasing what I saw as marauding bands of kids up and down Battersea Park Road. I also happen to know there were police with battering rams at Doddington - and there are CCTV cameras on and around the estate. Did it ever occur to you that it would be difficult for the police to have picked this kid unless he was caught red-handed with loot or shopped? And you want to be a character witness on the say-so of the kid's mum who you'd never even met before? You have been on the Council since 1971 and the Labour Leader for the last 27 out of 35 years and what have we got in this area as a result of your "leadership"? Run down area full of vandals, burglars, car thieves, murderers and drug dealers. You live between the Commons! I think I speak for all the law-abiding residents of Doddington as well as the wider Queenstown Ward - nobody here wants to "socially cohese" with criminals and thugs. Here's an idea - why don't you house them all in the posh street where you live, then you can "socially cohese" with them to your heart's content.
1) You don't speak for anybody else but yourself
!
2) To suggest that you are law-abiding is wrong,with Labour alone having created 3,500 new crimes between 1997 and 2009, I doubt that you would even know whether you were breaking the law or not, therefore a more accurate description would be that you try to be law-abiding when you can
!
3) Did you read anything that Councillor Belton wrote?
!
First and foremost, the lad pleaded not guilty therefore in the eyes of the law he is innocent until PROVEN guilty. The Council have sought to predetermine this mans guilt by issuing an eviction notice to the Mother.
!
4) I don't see anywhere, where Councillor Belton has glorified, sought to be an apologist for the riots or the rioters, he has taken it upon himself, rather than join the Hue and Cry of the masses or that of the populist front,to use his braing, obtain some facts before opening his gob; he is being decent.
!
The cowards way out would be to evict this family, dust their hands off, have done with it, slap each other on the back and congratulate each other on a job well done before even determining this mans guilt.
!
People rightly chastise rioting and the rioters, looting and the looters but they should take a good, long and hard look at themselves before they preach such nonsense. People will always be chastised for the bad that they do but so rarely rewarded or even noticed for the good.
[quote][p][bold]SLondonRes[/bold] wrote: Tony Belton, would you like to know what went on that night? Hoodies running in and out of the side streets all night. People terrorised in their own homes. Shops all closed down early. Helicopters flying around, police sirens screaming, chasing what I saw as marauding bands of kids up and down Battersea Park Road. I also happen to know there were police with battering rams at Doddington - and there are CCTV cameras on and around the estate. Did it ever occur to you that it would be difficult for the police to have picked this kid unless he was caught red-handed with loot or shopped? And you want to be a character witness on the say-so of the kid's mum who you'd never even met before? You have been on the Council since 1971 and the Labour Leader for the last 27 out of 35 years and what have we got in this area as a result of your "leadership"? Run down area full of vandals, burglars, car thieves, murderers and drug dealers. You live between the Commons! I think I speak for all the law-abiding residents of Doddington as well as the wider Queenstown Ward - nobody here wants to "socially cohese" with criminals and thugs. Here's an idea - why don't you house them all in the posh street where you live, then you can "socially cohese" with them to your heart's content.[/p][/quote]1) You don't speak for anybody else but yourself ! 2) To suggest that you are law-abiding is wrong,with Labour alone having created 3,500 new crimes between 1997 and 2009, I doubt that you would even know whether you were breaking the law or not, therefore a more accurate description would be that you try to be law-abiding when you can ! 3) Did you read anything that Councillor Belton wrote? ! First and foremost, the lad pleaded not guilty therefore in the eyes of the law he is innocent until PROVEN guilty. The Council have sought to predetermine this mans guilt by issuing an eviction notice to the Mother. ! 4) I don't see anywhere, where Councillor Belton has glorified, sought to be an apologist for the riots or the rioters, he has taken it upon himself, rather than join the Hue and Cry of the masses or that of the populist front,to use his braing, obtain some facts before opening his gob; he is being decent. ! The cowards way out would be to evict this family, dust their hands off, have done with it, slap each other on the back and congratulate each other on a job well done before even determining this mans guilt. ! People rightly chastise rioting and the rioters, looting and the looters but they should take a good, long and hard look at themselves before they preach such nonsense. People will always be chastised for the bad that they do but so rarely rewarded or even noticed for the good. wayneo
  • Score: 0

3:42am Sun 14 Aug 11

RosignolB says...

ajbelton wrote:
I am a Wandsworth Labour councillor, name Tony Belton and I thought your readers would be interested in the following story:

I have been round with Maita de la Calva, the to-be evicted Wandsworth tenant, for the last couple of hours and this is some of her story.

I started at the community gardening project on the Doddington Estate at about 10.40. There were 20+ people from Tower Hamlets, Lambeth and mainly the Battersea community, including of course WoW (Women of Wandsworth). I raised the Daily Mail eviction story and lots wanted to talk about it but WoW knew the lady concerned and knew how to get in touch with her. That in itself says a lot because WoW is the nearest thing to civic society that exists in Battersea and some might call them the nearest thing to a Big Society there is in Battersea. They of course would never dream of describing themselves as such. They told me that Maita works for a charity and was well known to them. Within seconds I had her mobile number.

I texted her and arranged a meeting. When I got there the Mail on Sunday was there and cameramen were outside filming the block. So what of Maita?

She is from Santander, Spain, and came here in 1986 when I guess she would have been about 20. She found herself in an abusive relationship, which broke up 5/6 years ago (all this was told to the Mail on Sunday so I am not revealing any private info). She has the “notorious” 18 year old son Daniel and an 8 year old daughter. The family go to church every Sunday at the Shaftesbury Christian Centre.

Maita is a trustee of a charity called Storm, which is based on the Doddington estate (which for those who might not know is just outside the most deprived ward in Wandsworth, but is itself probably the most deprived estate in the Borough). Storm helps, as a support group, the unemployed to get jobs. It does work with ESOL (English for Speakers of Other Languages). She and Daniel do work for another charity called CHEERS (Comfort, Hope, Energy, Encouragement and Rebuilding – don’t know what the S stands for!), which helps single parents. Maita also teaches flamenco dancing, though I don’t recall exactly where.

Daniel volunteers for Regenerate UK, which is a Christian Youth organisation which runs a “play bus”, which tours estates in the World’s End, Roehampton and Balham. It also encourages kids to get off the streets, to study and to listen to their parents.

Maita told me her son’s version of Tuesday night’s events, which I think I probably should not tell because I suspect it is sub judice. Suffice to say that IF his version is true then as a result of going to meet his girlfriend, who works in a charity shop in Northcote Road, he and she got fairly innocently mixed up in a crowd event.

His case will be heard at SW Magistrates Court on Wednesday. I have volunteered to give character reference but of course I can only do so at third hand and so it may be pointless.

How would eviction of this family help social cohesion in London? I will certainly be raising this issue in Council.

Yours sincerely
Tony Belton, Latchmere Labour Councillor
Hopefully while Councillor Belton is taking this up with the council he is also sending this Mum down to the law centre. Personally I would have more faith in them and the courts than with a debate in the council.

The Council's action is clearly premature leave aside whether it is right or wrong.

If there is a clause in the lease that says that tenants can be evicted for "involvement in criminality" that involvemet would have to be proved at least on the balance of probablilities and it's unlikely that a County Court judge would pre-empt a Crown Court trial in a finding of guilt.

Even then, the judge would have to be satisfied that the clause was fair (i.e. not an unfair term of contract) and meets EC human rights law.

Personally I am depressed at the "one size fits all" respoonse of the media to the looting. There were gangsters involved for sure but equally, for reasons yet to be assessed, normally law abiding people went mad in the most horrendous way. As for the kids, they were surrounded by adults including youth workers and social workers who were looting. The phrase "led astray" springs to mind.

Those convicted will be treated harshly by the courts in comparison to similar crimes commited in "normal" circumstances. That's fair enough and should be enough.

Punishments that only apply to council tenants or to people on benefits are hardly going to improve the consequences of a society dominated by greed and envy.
[quote][p][bold]ajbelton[/bold] wrote: I am a Wandsworth Labour councillor, name Tony Belton and I thought your readers would be interested in the following story: I have been round with Maita de la Calva, the to-be evicted Wandsworth tenant, for the last couple of hours and this is some of her story. I started at the community gardening project on the Doddington Estate at about 10.40. There were 20+ people from Tower Hamlets, Lambeth and mainly the Battersea community, including of course WoW (Women of Wandsworth). I raised the Daily Mail eviction story and lots wanted to talk about it but WoW knew the lady concerned and knew how to get in touch with her. That in itself says a lot because WoW is the nearest thing to civic society that exists in Battersea and some might call them the nearest thing to a Big Society there is in Battersea. They of course would never dream of describing themselves as such. They told me that Maita works for a charity and was well known to them. Within seconds I had her mobile number. I texted her and arranged a meeting. When I got there the Mail on Sunday was there and cameramen were outside filming the block. So what of Maita? She is from Santander, Spain, and came here in 1986 when I guess she would have been about 20. She found herself in an abusive relationship, which broke up 5/6 years ago (all this was told to the Mail on Sunday so I am not revealing any private info). She has the “notorious” 18 year old son Daniel and an 8 year old daughter. The family go to church every Sunday at the Shaftesbury Christian Centre. Maita is a trustee of a charity called Storm, which is based on the Doddington estate (which for those who might not know is just outside the most deprived ward in Wandsworth, but is itself probably the most deprived estate in the Borough). Storm helps, as a support group, the unemployed to get jobs. It does work with ESOL (English for Speakers of Other Languages). She and Daniel do work for another charity called CHEERS (Comfort, Hope, Energy, Encouragement and Rebuilding – don’t know what the S stands for!), which helps single parents. Maita also teaches flamenco dancing, though I don’t recall exactly where. Daniel volunteers for Regenerate UK, which is a Christian Youth organisation which runs a “play bus”, which tours estates in the World’s End, Roehampton and Balham. It also encourages kids to get off the streets, to study and to listen to their parents. Maita told me her son’s version of Tuesday night’s events, which I think I probably should not tell because I suspect it is sub judice. Suffice to say that IF his version is true then as a result of going to meet his girlfriend, who works in a charity shop in Northcote Road, he and she got fairly innocently mixed up in a crowd event. His case will be heard at SW Magistrates Court on Wednesday. I have volunteered to give character reference but of course I can only do so at third hand and so it may be pointless. How would eviction of this family help social cohesion in London? I will certainly be raising this issue in Council. Yours sincerely Tony Belton, Latchmere Labour Councillor[/p][/quote]Hopefully while Councillor Belton is taking this up with the council he is also sending this Mum down to the law centre. Personally I would have more faith in them and the courts than with a debate in the council. The Council's action is clearly premature leave aside whether it is right or wrong. If there is a clause in the lease that says that tenants can be evicted for "involvement in criminality" that involvemet would have to be proved at least on the balance of probablilities and it's unlikely that a County Court judge would pre-empt a Crown Court trial in a finding of guilt. Even then, the judge would have to be satisfied that the clause was fair (i.e. not an unfair term of contract) and meets EC human rights law. Personally I am depressed at the "one size fits all" respoonse of the media to the looting. There were gangsters involved for sure but equally, for reasons yet to be assessed, normally law abiding people went mad in the most horrendous way. As for the kids, they were surrounded by adults including youth workers and social workers who were looting. The phrase "led astray" springs to mind. Those convicted will be treated harshly by the courts in comparison to similar crimes commited in "normal" circumstances. That's fair enough and should be enough. Punishments that only apply to council tenants or to people on benefits are hardly going to improve the consequences of a society dominated by greed and envy. RosignolB
  • Score: 0

12:19pm Sun 14 Aug 11

Luke01 says...

Memo to Tony Belton:
"Neither the tenant nor their son can be named at this stage for legal reasons."
Memo to Tony Belton: "Neither the tenant nor their son can be named at this stage for legal reasons." Luke01
  • Score: 0

1:30pm Sun 14 Aug 11

RosignolB says...

Luke01 wrote:
Memo to Tony Belton:
"Neither the tenant nor their son can be named at this stage for legal reasons."
Clearly the Daily Mail's lawyers disagree as they have a 2 page spread with names and pictures
[quote][p][bold]Luke01[/bold] wrote: Memo to Tony Belton: "Neither the tenant nor their son can be named at this stage for legal reasons."[/p][/quote]Clearly the Daily Mail's lawyers disagree as they have a 2 page spread with names and pictures RosignolB
  • Score: 0

7:25pm Sun 14 Aug 11

Surreydon says...

SLondonRes wrote:
Tony Belton, would you like to know what went on that night? Hoodies running in and out of the side streets all night. People terrorised in their own homes. Shops all closed down early. Helicopters flying around, police sirens screaming, chasing what I saw as marauding bands of kids up and down Battersea Park Road. I also happen to know there were police with battering rams at Doddington - and there are CCTV cameras on and around the estate. Did it ever occur to you that it would be difficult for the police to have picked this kid unless he was caught red-handed with loot or shopped? And you want to be a character witness on the say-so of the kid's mum who you'd never even met before? You have been on the Council since 1971 and the Labour Leader for the last 27 out of 35 years and what have we got in this area as a result of your "leadership"? Run down area full of vandals, burglars, car thieves, murderers and drug dealers. You live between the Commons! I think I speak for all the law-abiding residents of Doddington as well as the wider Queenstown Ward - nobody here wants to "socially cohese" with criminals and thugs. Here's an idea - why don't you house them all in the posh street where you live, then you can "socially cohese" with them to your heart's content.
Councillor Belton, you should be ashamed! Sadly, as usual, people are accepting this garbage at face value.

SLondonRes is spot on!
[quote][p][bold]SLondonRes[/bold] wrote: Tony Belton, would you like to know what went on that night? Hoodies running in and out of the side streets all night. People terrorised in their own homes. Shops all closed down early. Helicopters flying around, police sirens screaming, chasing what I saw as marauding bands of kids up and down Battersea Park Road. I also happen to know there were police with battering rams at Doddington - and there are CCTV cameras on and around the estate. Did it ever occur to you that it would be difficult for the police to have picked this kid unless he was caught red-handed with loot or shopped? And you want to be a character witness on the say-so of the kid's mum who you'd never even met before? You have been on the Council since 1971 and the Labour Leader for the last 27 out of 35 years and what have we got in this area as a result of your "leadership"? Run down area full of vandals, burglars, car thieves, murderers and drug dealers. You live between the Commons! I think I speak for all the law-abiding residents of Doddington as well as the wider Queenstown Ward - nobody here wants to "socially cohese" with criminals and thugs. Here's an idea - why don't you house them all in the posh street where you live, then you can "socially cohese" with them to your heart's content.[/p][/quote]Councillor Belton, you should be ashamed! Sadly, as usual, people are accepting this garbage at face value. SLondonRes is spot on! Surreydon
  • Score: 0

7:38pm Sun 14 Aug 11

Surreydon says...

wayneo wrote:
SLondonRes wrote: Tony Belton, would you like to know what went on that night? Hoodies running in and out of the side streets all night. People terrorised in their own homes. Shops all closed down early. Helicopters flying around, police sirens screaming, chasing what I saw as marauding bands of kids up and down Battersea Park Road. I also happen to know there were police with battering rams at Doddington - and there are CCTV cameras on and around the estate. Did it ever occur to you that it would be difficult for the police to have picked this kid unless he was caught red-handed with loot or shopped? And you want to be a character witness on the say-so of the kid's mum who you'd never even met before? You have been on the Council since 1971 and the Labour Leader for the last 27 out of 35 years and what have we got in this area as a result of your "leadership"? Run down area full of vandals, burglars, car thieves, murderers and drug dealers. You live between the Commons! I think I speak for all the law-abiding residents of Doddington as well as the wider Queenstown Ward - nobody here wants to "socially cohese" with criminals and thugs. Here's an idea - why don't you house them all in the posh street where you live, then you can "socially cohese" with them to your heart's content.
1) You don't speak for anybody else but yourself ! 2) To suggest that you are law-abiding is wrong,with Labour alone having created 3,500 new crimes between 1997 and 2009, I doubt that you would even know whether you were breaking the law or not, therefore a more accurate description would be that you try to be law-abiding when you can ! 3) Did you read anything that Councillor Belton wrote? ! First and foremost, the lad pleaded not guilty therefore in the eyes of the law he is innocent until PROVEN guilty. The Council have sought to predetermine this mans guilt by issuing an eviction notice to the Mother. ! 4) I don't see anywhere, where Councillor Belton has glorified, sought to be an apologist for the riots or the rioters, he has taken it upon himself, rather than join the Hue and Cry of the masses or that of the populist front,to use his braing, obtain some facts before opening his gob; he is being decent. ! The cowards way out would be to evict this family, dust their hands off, have done with it, slap each other on the back and congratulate each other on a job well done before even determining this mans guilt. ! People rightly chastise rioting and the rioters, looting and the looters but they should take a good, long and hard look at themselves before they preach such nonsense. People will always be chastised for the bad that they do but so rarely rewarded or even noticed for the good.
Didnt take long for the 'pc' lobby to raise their objections to any tough stance shown against the rioters. The use of the word 'chastise' with regard to the mindless cretins says it all! Maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution.........
[quote][p][bold]wayneo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SLondonRes[/bold] wrote: Tony Belton, would you like to know what went on that night? Hoodies running in and out of the side streets all night. People terrorised in their own homes. Shops all closed down early. Helicopters flying around, police sirens screaming, chasing what I saw as marauding bands of kids up and down Battersea Park Road. I also happen to know there were police with battering rams at Doddington - and there are CCTV cameras on and around the estate. Did it ever occur to you that it would be difficult for the police to have picked this kid unless he was caught red-handed with loot or shopped? And you want to be a character witness on the say-so of the kid's mum who you'd never even met before? You have been on the Council since 1971 and the Labour Leader for the last 27 out of 35 years and what have we got in this area as a result of your "leadership"? Run down area full of vandals, burglars, car thieves, murderers and drug dealers. You live between the Commons! I think I speak for all the law-abiding residents of Doddington as well as the wider Queenstown Ward - nobody here wants to "socially cohese" with criminals and thugs. Here's an idea - why don't you house them all in the posh street where you live, then you can "socially cohese" with them to your heart's content.[/p][/quote]1) You don't speak for anybody else but yourself ! 2) To suggest that you are law-abiding is wrong,with Labour alone having created 3,500 new crimes between 1997 and 2009, I doubt that you would even know whether you were breaking the law or not, therefore a more accurate description would be that you try to be law-abiding when you can ! 3) Did you read anything that Councillor Belton wrote? ! First and foremost, the lad pleaded not guilty therefore in the eyes of the law he is innocent until PROVEN guilty. The Council have sought to predetermine this mans guilt by issuing an eviction notice to the Mother. ! 4) I don't see anywhere, where Councillor Belton has glorified, sought to be an apologist for the riots or the rioters, he has taken it upon himself, rather than join the Hue and Cry of the masses or that of the populist front,to use his braing, obtain some facts before opening his gob; he is being decent. ! The cowards way out would be to evict this family, dust their hands off, have done with it, slap each other on the back and congratulate each other on a job well done before even determining this mans guilt. ! People rightly chastise rioting and the rioters, looting and the looters but they should take a good, long and hard look at themselves before they preach such nonsense. People will always be chastised for the bad that they do but so rarely rewarded or even noticed for the good.[/p][/quote]Didnt take long for the 'pc' lobby to raise their objections to any tough stance shown against the rioters. The use of the word 'chastise' with regard to the mindless cretins says it all! Maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution......... Surreydon
  • Score: 0

7:49pm Sun 14 Aug 11

RosignolB says...

Oh dear Epsomdon. SLondonRes and you do seem to have enormous faith that the police couldn't have arrested any innocent people in the mayhem of last week.

You know as much as I do about the circumstances of this arrest which is absolutely nothing.

Hopefully SW Magistrates will be less quick to prejudge
Oh dear Epsomdon. SLondonRes and you do seem to have enormous faith that the police couldn't have arrested any innocent people in the mayhem of last week. You know as much as I do about the circumstances of this arrest which is absolutely nothing. Hopefully SW Magistrates will be less quick to prejudge RosignolB
  • Score: 0

8:05pm Sun 14 Aug 11

Surreydon says...

RosignolB wrote:
Oh dear Epsomdon. SLondonRes and you do seem to have enormous faith that the police couldn't have arrested any innocent people in the mayhem of last week. You know as much as I do about the circumstances of this arrest which is absolutely nothing. Hopefully SW Magistrates will be less quick to prejudge
Don't mind me. It's just that I've been around long enough to know that the whole thing will end up in the usual farce! The pc lobby & the yobs will win again and millions will be wasted on 'educating' everybody in the art of living in harmony.......
[quote][p][bold]RosignolB[/bold] wrote: Oh dear Epsomdon. SLondonRes and you do seem to have enormous faith that the police couldn't have arrested any innocent people in the mayhem of last week. You know as much as I do about the circumstances of this arrest which is absolutely nothing. Hopefully SW Magistrates will be less quick to prejudge[/p][/quote]Don't mind me. It's just that I've been around long enough to know that the whole thing will end up in the usual farce! The pc lobby & the yobs will win again and millions will be wasted on 'educating' everybody in the art of living in harmony....... Surreydon
  • Score: 0

9:14pm Sun 14 Aug 11

wayneo says...

Surreydon wrote:
wayneo wrote:
SLondonRes wrote: Tony Belton, would you like to know what went on that night? Hoodies running in and out of the side streets all night. People terrorised in their own homes. Shops all closed down early. Helicopters flying around, police sirens screaming, chasing what I saw as marauding bands of kids up and down Battersea Park Road. I also happen to know there were police with battering rams at Doddington - and there are CCTV cameras on and around the estate. Did it ever occur to you that it would be difficult for the police to have picked this kid unless he was caught red-handed with loot or shopped? And you want to be a character witness on the say-so of the kid's mum who you'd never even met before? You have been on the Council since 1971 and the Labour Leader for the last 27 out of 35 years and what have we got in this area as a result of your "leadership"? Run down area full of vandals, burglars, car thieves, murderers and drug dealers. You live between the Commons! I think I speak for all the law-abiding residents of Doddington as well as the wider Queenstown Ward - nobody here wants to "socially cohese" with criminals and thugs. Here's an idea - why don't you house them all in the posh street where you live, then you can "socially cohese" with them to your heart's content.
1) You don't speak for anybody else but yourself ! 2) To suggest that you are law-abiding is wrong,with Labour alone having created 3,500 new crimes between 1997 and 2009, I doubt that you would even know whether you were breaking the law or not, therefore a more accurate description would be that you try to be law-abiding when you can ! 3) Did you read anything that Councillor Belton wrote? ! First and foremost, the lad pleaded not guilty therefore in the eyes of the law he is innocent until PROVEN guilty. The Council have sought to predetermine this mans guilt by issuing an eviction notice to the Mother. ! 4) I don't see anywhere, where Councillor Belton has glorified, sought to be an apologist for the riots or the rioters, he has taken it upon himself, rather than join the Hue and Cry of the masses or that of the populist front,to use his braing, obtain some facts before opening his gob; he is being decent. ! The cowards way out would be to evict this family, dust their hands off, have done with it, slap each other on the back and congratulate each other on a job well done before even determining this mans guilt. ! People rightly chastise rioting and the rioters, looting and the looters but they should take a good, long and hard look at themselves before they preach such nonsense. People will always be chastised for the bad that they do but so rarely rewarded or even noticed for the good.
Didnt take long for the 'pc' lobby to raise their objections to any tough stance shown against the rioters. The use of the word 'chastise' with regard to the mindless cretins says it all! Maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution.........
If you knew anything at all about me (which you don't), you would know that I am FAR from PC but being ex-Forces and having served in conflict, I am quite aware of the sacrifice that men and women have made in order that freedom not be taken for granted:
!
Tell me, as you appear keen to snipe with childish and ill-considered remarks.
!
1) Are you aware of the full facts in this case or merely from what you read in a newspaper?
!
2) Do you agree with the fundamental right of being innocent until proven Guilty?
!
2) That trial and punishment should be determined and presented to and determined by the Courts or a Jury of our peers having heard and deliberated all of the facts?
!
3) Do you think it right, that a Council Housing Officer can, in my opinion, predetermine the decision of a Court,pervert-the course-of-Justice and intimidate a witness, by publicly 'making an example' of a man who is still awaiting trial?
!
It is perhaps ironic that the Council Leader Ravi Govindia carps on about Idi Amin following the expulsion of Ugandan Asians from Uganda yet presides over a Council that seeks to predetermine the sentence of a Court and find this man guilty before he has had a trial.
!
As for Chastise, do you actually know or understand the meaning of the word? for your benefit it is below:
!
Source- Oxford English:
rebuke or reprimand severely,
punish, especially by beating.
!
!
Lastly, perhaps you should take a long hard look at your last statement " Maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution"; pretty ironic considering this man hasn't been convicted of anything; I'm not sure what I'm more concerned about, the behaviour of the Council to this mans family or that unfortunately, people like you have the RIGHT to vote.
[quote][p][bold]Surreydon[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]wayneo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SLondonRes[/bold] wrote: Tony Belton, would you like to know what went on that night? Hoodies running in and out of the side streets all night. People terrorised in their own homes. Shops all closed down early. Helicopters flying around, police sirens screaming, chasing what I saw as marauding bands of kids up and down Battersea Park Road. I also happen to know there were police with battering rams at Doddington - and there are CCTV cameras on and around the estate. Did it ever occur to you that it would be difficult for the police to have picked this kid unless he was caught red-handed with loot or shopped? And you want to be a character witness on the say-so of the kid's mum who you'd never even met before? You have been on the Council since 1971 and the Labour Leader for the last 27 out of 35 years and what have we got in this area as a result of your "leadership"? Run down area full of vandals, burglars, car thieves, murderers and drug dealers. You live between the Commons! I think I speak for all the law-abiding residents of Doddington as well as the wider Queenstown Ward - nobody here wants to "socially cohese" with criminals and thugs. Here's an idea - why don't you house them all in the posh street where you live, then you can "socially cohese" with them to your heart's content.[/p][/quote]1) You don't speak for anybody else but yourself ! 2) To suggest that you are law-abiding is wrong,with Labour alone having created 3,500 new crimes between 1997 and 2009, I doubt that you would even know whether you were breaking the law or not, therefore a more accurate description would be that you try to be law-abiding when you can ! 3) Did you read anything that Councillor Belton wrote? ! First and foremost, the lad pleaded not guilty therefore in the eyes of the law he is innocent until PROVEN guilty. The Council have sought to predetermine this mans guilt by issuing an eviction notice to the Mother. ! 4) I don't see anywhere, where Councillor Belton has glorified, sought to be an apologist for the riots or the rioters, he has taken it upon himself, rather than join the Hue and Cry of the masses or that of the populist front,to use his braing, obtain some facts before opening his gob; he is being decent. ! The cowards way out would be to evict this family, dust their hands off, have done with it, slap each other on the back and congratulate each other on a job well done before even determining this mans guilt. ! People rightly chastise rioting and the rioters, looting and the looters but they should take a good, long and hard look at themselves before they preach such nonsense. People will always be chastised for the bad that they do but so rarely rewarded or even noticed for the good.[/p][/quote]Didnt take long for the 'pc' lobby to raise their objections to any tough stance shown against the rioters. The use of the word 'chastise' with regard to the mindless cretins says it all! Maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution.........[/p][/quote]If you knew anything at all about me (which you don't), you would know that I am FAR from PC but being ex-Forces and having served in conflict, I am quite aware of the sacrifice that men and women have made in order that freedom not be taken for granted: ! Tell me, as you appear keen to snipe with childish and ill-considered remarks. ! 1) Are you aware of the full facts in this case or merely from what you read in a newspaper? ! 2) Do you agree with the fundamental right of being innocent until proven Guilty? ! 2) That trial and punishment should be determined and presented to and determined by the Courts or a Jury of our peers having heard and deliberated all of the facts? ! 3) Do you think it right, that a Council Housing Officer can, in my opinion, predetermine the decision of a Court,pervert-the course-of-Justice and intimidate a witness, by publicly 'making an example' of a man who is still awaiting trial? ! It is perhaps ironic that the Council Leader Ravi Govindia carps on about Idi Amin following the expulsion of Ugandan Asians from Uganda yet presides over a Council that seeks to predetermine the sentence of a Court and find this man guilty before he has had a trial. ! As for Chastise, do you actually know or understand the meaning of the word? for your benefit it is below: ! Source- Oxford English: rebuke or reprimand severely, punish, especially by beating. ! ! Lastly, perhaps you should take a long hard look at your last statement " Maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution"; pretty ironic considering this man hasn't been convicted of anything; I'm not sure what I'm more concerned about, the behaviour of the Council to this mans family or that unfortunately, people like you have the RIGHT to vote. wayneo
  • Score: 0

10:55pm Sun 14 Aug 11

Surreydon says...

wayneo wrote:
Surreydon wrote:
wayneo wrote:
SLondonRes wrote: Tony Belton, would you like to know what went on that night? Hoodies running in and out of the side streets all night. People terrorised in their own homes. Shops all closed down early. Helicopters flying around, police sirens screaming, chasing what I saw as marauding bands of kids up and down Battersea Park Road. I also happen to know there were police with battering rams at Doddington - and there are CCTV cameras on and around the estate. Did it ever occur to you that it would be difficult for the police to have picked this kid unless he was caught red-handed with loot or shopped? And you want to be a character witness on the say-so of the kid's mum who you'd never even met before? You have been on the Council since 1971 and the Labour Leader for the last 27 out of 35 years and what have we got in this area as a result of your "leadership"? Run down area full of vandals, burglars, car thieves, murderers and drug dealers. You live between the Commons! I think I speak for all the law-abiding residents of Doddington as well as the wider Queenstown Ward - nobody here wants to "socially cohese" with criminals and thugs. Here's an idea - why don't you house them all in the posh street where you live, then you can "socially cohese" with them to your heart's content.
1) You don't speak for anybody else but yourself ! 2) To suggest that you are law-abiding is wrong,with Labour alone having created 3,500 new crimes between 1997 and 2009, I doubt that you would even know whether you were breaking the law or not, therefore a more accurate description would be that you try to be law-abiding when you can ! 3) Did you read anything that Councillor Belton wrote? ! First and foremost, the lad pleaded not guilty therefore in the eyes of the law he is innocent until PROVEN guilty. The Council have sought to predetermine this mans guilt by issuing an eviction notice to the Mother. ! 4) I don't see anywhere, where Councillor Belton has glorified, sought to be an apologist for the riots or the rioters, he has taken it upon himself, rather than join the Hue and Cry of the masses or that of the populist front,to use his braing, obtain some facts before opening his gob; he is being decent. ! The cowards way out would be to evict this family, dust their hands off, have done with it, slap each other on the back and congratulate each other on a job well done before even determining this mans guilt. ! People rightly chastise rioting and the rioters, looting and the looters but they should take a good, long and hard look at themselves before they preach such nonsense. People will always be chastised for the bad that they do but so rarely rewarded or even noticed for the good.
Didnt take long for the 'pc' lobby to raise their objections to any tough stance shown against the rioters. The use of the word 'chastise' with regard to the mindless cretins says it all! Maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution.........
If you knew anything at all about me (which you don't), you would know that I am FAR from PC but being ex-Forces and having served in conflict, I am quite aware of the sacrifice that men and women have made in order that freedom not be taken for granted:
!
Tell me, as you appear keen to snipe with childish and ill-considered remarks.
!
1) Are you aware of the full facts in this case or merely from what you read in a newspaper?
!
2) Do you agree with the fundamental right of being innocent until proven Guilty?
!
2) That trial and punishment should be determined and presented to and determined by the Courts or a Jury of our peers having heard and deliberated all of the facts?
!
3) Do you think it right, that a Council Housing Officer can, in my opinion, predetermine the decision of a Court,pervert-the course-of-Justice and intimidate a witness, by publicly 'making an example' of a man who is still awaiting trial?
!
It is perhaps ironic that the Council Leader Ravi Govindia carps on about Idi Amin following the expulsion of Ugandan Asians from Uganda yet presides over a Council that seeks to predetermine the sentence of a Court and find this man guilty before he has had a trial.
!
As for Chastise, do you actually know or understand the meaning of the word? for your benefit it is below:
!
Source- Oxford English:
rebuke or reprimand severely,
punish, especially by beating.
!
!
Lastly, perhaps you should take a long hard look at your last statement " Maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution"; pretty ironic considering this man hasn't been convicted of anything; I'm not sure what I'm more concerned about, the behaviour of the Council to this mans family or that unfortunately, people like you have the RIGHT to vote.
Now who's sniping?
[quote][p][bold]wayneo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Surreydon[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]wayneo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SLondonRes[/bold] wrote: Tony Belton, would you like to know what went on that night? Hoodies running in and out of the side streets all night. People terrorised in their own homes. Shops all closed down early. Helicopters flying around, police sirens screaming, chasing what I saw as marauding bands of kids up and down Battersea Park Road. I also happen to know there were police with battering rams at Doddington - and there are CCTV cameras on and around the estate. Did it ever occur to you that it would be difficult for the police to have picked this kid unless he was caught red-handed with loot or shopped? And you want to be a character witness on the say-so of the kid's mum who you'd never even met before? You have been on the Council since 1971 and the Labour Leader for the last 27 out of 35 years and what have we got in this area as a result of your "leadership"? Run down area full of vandals, burglars, car thieves, murderers and drug dealers. You live between the Commons! I think I speak for all the law-abiding residents of Doddington as well as the wider Queenstown Ward - nobody here wants to "socially cohese" with criminals and thugs. Here's an idea - why don't you house them all in the posh street where you live, then you can "socially cohese" with them to your heart's content.[/p][/quote]1) You don't speak for anybody else but yourself ! 2) To suggest that you are law-abiding is wrong,with Labour alone having created 3,500 new crimes between 1997 and 2009, I doubt that you would even know whether you were breaking the law or not, therefore a more accurate description would be that you try to be law-abiding when you can ! 3) Did you read anything that Councillor Belton wrote? ! First and foremost, the lad pleaded not guilty therefore in the eyes of the law he is innocent until PROVEN guilty. The Council have sought to predetermine this mans guilt by issuing an eviction notice to the Mother. ! 4) I don't see anywhere, where Councillor Belton has glorified, sought to be an apologist for the riots or the rioters, he has taken it upon himself, rather than join the Hue and Cry of the masses or that of the populist front,to use his braing, obtain some facts before opening his gob; he is being decent. ! The cowards way out would be to evict this family, dust their hands off, have done with it, slap each other on the back and congratulate each other on a job well done before even determining this mans guilt. ! People rightly chastise rioting and the rioters, looting and the looters but they should take a good, long and hard look at themselves before they preach such nonsense. People will always be chastised for the bad that they do but so rarely rewarded or even noticed for the good.[/p][/quote]Didnt take long for the 'pc' lobby to raise their objections to any tough stance shown against the rioters. The use of the word 'chastise' with regard to the mindless cretins says it all! Maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution.........[/p][/quote]If you knew anything at all about me (which you don't), you would know that I am FAR from PC but being ex-Forces and having served in conflict, I am quite aware of the sacrifice that men and women have made in order that freedom not be taken for granted: ! Tell me, as you appear keen to snipe with childish and ill-considered remarks. ! 1) Are you aware of the full facts in this case or merely from what you read in a newspaper? ! 2) Do you agree with the fundamental right of being innocent until proven Guilty? ! 2) That trial and punishment should be determined and presented to and determined by the Courts or a Jury of our peers having heard and deliberated all of the facts? ! 3) Do you think it right, that a Council Housing Officer can, in my opinion, predetermine the decision of a Court,pervert-the course-of-Justice and intimidate a witness, by publicly 'making an example' of a man who is still awaiting trial? ! It is perhaps ironic that the Council Leader Ravi Govindia carps on about Idi Amin following the expulsion of Ugandan Asians from Uganda yet presides over a Council that seeks to predetermine the sentence of a Court and find this man guilty before he has had a trial. ! As for Chastise, do you actually know or understand the meaning of the word? for your benefit it is below: ! Source- Oxford English: rebuke or reprimand severely, punish, especially by beating. ! ! Lastly, perhaps you should take a long hard look at your last statement " Maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution"; pretty ironic considering this man hasn't been convicted of anything; I'm not sure what I'm more concerned about, the behaviour of the Council to this mans family or that unfortunately, people like you have the RIGHT to vote.[/p][/quote]Now who's sniping? Surreydon
  • Score: 0

9:09pm Mon 15 Aug 11

Surreydon says...

wayneo. I was going to leave this alone but your arrogance has left me a might testy. Of course I agree with the fundamental right of being innocent until proved guilty. To coin your phrase, you should take a hard look at my last statement. I said that "maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution". That means quite simply, all those convicted NOT those awaiting trial! Surely not too difficult to understand for a man with such a way with words!
While it’s important that justice is seen to be done, let’s spare some thought for the people who lost their homes, their possessions & their businesses as a direct result of the rioters. Will they receive justice or just meaningless platitudes? I wonder!
Now I find your final comment really offensive. Although you know nothing about me, you have the affront to voice concern about "people like me" having the right to vote"!! I've earned that right, unlike the rioters & their mentors!
wayneo. I was going to leave this alone but your arrogance has left me a might testy. Of course I agree with the fundamental right of being innocent until proved guilty. To coin your phrase, you should take a hard look at my last statement. I said that "maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution". That means quite simply, all those convicted NOT those awaiting trial! Surely not too difficult to understand for a man with such a way with words! While it’s important that justice is seen to be done, let’s spare some thought for the people who lost their homes, their possessions & their businesses as a direct result of the rioters. Will they receive justice or just meaningless platitudes? I wonder! Now I find your final comment really offensive. Although you know nothing about me, you have the affront to voice concern about "people like me" having the right to vote"!! I've earned that right, unlike the rioters & their mentors! Surreydon
  • Score: 0

9:11pm Mon 15 Aug 11

wayneo says...

Surreydon wrote:
wayneo wrote:
Surreydon wrote:
wayneo wrote:
SLondonRes wrote: Tony Belton, would you like to know what went on that night? Hoodies running in and out of the side streets all night. People terrorised in their own homes. Shops all closed down early. Helicopters flying around, police sirens screaming, chasing what I saw as marauding bands of kids up and down Battersea Park Road. I also happen to know there were police with battering rams at Doddington - and there are CCTV cameras on and around the estate. Did it ever occur to you that it would be difficult for the police to have picked this kid unless he was caught red-handed with loot or shopped? And you want to be a character witness on the say-so of the kid's mum who you'd never even met before? You have been on the Council since 1971 and the Labour Leader for the last 27 out of 35 years and what have we got in this area as a result of your "leadership"? Run down area full of vandals, burglars, car thieves, murderers and drug dealers. You live between the Commons! I think I speak for all the law-abiding residents of Doddington as well as the wider Queenstown Ward - nobody here wants to "socially cohese" with criminals and thugs. Here's an idea - why don't you house them all in the posh street where you live, then you can "socially cohese" with them to your heart's content.
1) You don't speak for anybody else but yourself ! 2) To suggest that you are law-abiding is wrong,with Labour alone having created 3,500 new crimes between 1997 and 2009, I doubt that you would even know whether you were breaking the law or not, therefore a more accurate description would be that you try to be law-abiding when you can ! 3) Did you read anything that Councillor Belton wrote? ! First and foremost, the lad pleaded not guilty therefore in the eyes of the law he is innocent until PROVEN guilty. The Council have sought to predetermine this mans guilt by issuing an eviction notice to the Mother. ! 4) I don't see anywhere, where Councillor Belton has glorified, sought to be an apologist for the riots or the rioters, he has taken it upon himself, rather than join the Hue and Cry of the masses or that of the populist front,to use his braing, obtain some facts before opening his gob; he is being decent. ! The cowards way out would be to evict this family, dust their hands off, have done with it, slap each other on the back and congratulate each other on a job well done before even determining this mans guilt. ! People rightly chastise rioting and the rioters, looting and the looters but they should take a good, long and hard look at themselves before they preach such nonsense. People will always be chastised for the bad that they do but so rarely rewarded or even noticed for the good.
Didnt take long for the 'pc' lobby to raise their objections to any tough stance shown against the rioters. The use of the word 'chastise' with regard to the mindless cretins says it all! Maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution.........
If you knew anything at all about me (which you don't), you would know that I am FAR from PC but being ex-Forces and having served in conflict, I am quite aware of the sacrifice that men and women have made in order that freedom not be taken for granted: ! Tell me, as you appear keen to snipe with childish and ill-considered remarks. ! 1) Are you aware of the full facts in this case or merely from what you read in a newspaper? ! 2) Do you agree with the fundamental right of being innocent until proven Guilty? ! 2) That trial and punishment should be determined and presented to and determined by the Courts or a Jury of our peers having heard and deliberated all of the facts? ! 3) Do you think it right, that a Council Housing Officer can, in my opinion, predetermine the decision of a Court,pervert-the course-of-Justice and intimidate a witness, by publicly 'making an example' of a man who is still awaiting trial? ! It is perhaps ironic that the Council Leader Ravi Govindia carps on about Idi Amin following the expulsion of Ugandan Asians from Uganda yet presides over a Council that seeks to predetermine the sentence of a Court and find this man guilty before he has had a trial. ! As for Chastise, do you actually know or understand the meaning of the word? for your benefit it is below: ! Source- Oxford English: rebuke or reprimand severely, punish, especially by beating. ! ! Lastly, perhaps you should take a long hard look at your last statement " Maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution"; pretty ironic considering this man hasn't been convicted of anything; I'm not sure what I'm more concerned about, the behaviour of the Council to this mans family or that unfortunately, people like you have the RIGHT to vote.
Now who's sniping?
I'm not convinced that an opinion on your ability to vote, having been based on your crude 'hang 'em' first mentality from within your previous posts, is sniping; irrespective of that, I note that you have refrained from answering any of the questions that I put to you. Surely, as an upstanding member of Society as yourself, you would have no problem in answering them?
[quote][p][bold]Surreydon[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]wayneo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Surreydon[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]wayneo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SLondonRes[/bold] wrote: Tony Belton, would you like to know what went on that night? Hoodies running in and out of the side streets all night. People terrorised in their own homes. Shops all closed down early. Helicopters flying around, police sirens screaming, chasing what I saw as marauding bands of kids up and down Battersea Park Road. I also happen to know there were police with battering rams at Doddington - and there are CCTV cameras on and around the estate. Did it ever occur to you that it would be difficult for the police to have picked this kid unless he was caught red-handed with loot or shopped? And you want to be a character witness on the say-so of the kid's mum who you'd never even met before? You have been on the Council since 1971 and the Labour Leader for the last 27 out of 35 years and what have we got in this area as a result of your "leadership"? Run down area full of vandals, burglars, car thieves, murderers and drug dealers. You live between the Commons! I think I speak for all the law-abiding residents of Doddington as well as the wider Queenstown Ward - nobody here wants to "socially cohese" with criminals and thugs. Here's an idea - why don't you house them all in the posh street where you live, then you can "socially cohese" with them to your heart's content.[/p][/quote]1) You don't speak for anybody else but yourself ! 2) To suggest that you are law-abiding is wrong,with Labour alone having created 3,500 new crimes between 1997 and 2009, I doubt that you would even know whether you were breaking the law or not, therefore a more accurate description would be that you try to be law-abiding when you can ! 3) Did you read anything that Councillor Belton wrote? ! First and foremost, the lad pleaded not guilty therefore in the eyes of the law he is innocent until PROVEN guilty. The Council have sought to predetermine this mans guilt by issuing an eviction notice to the Mother. ! 4) I don't see anywhere, where Councillor Belton has glorified, sought to be an apologist for the riots or the rioters, he has taken it upon himself, rather than join the Hue and Cry of the masses or that of the populist front,to use his braing, obtain some facts before opening his gob; he is being decent. ! The cowards way out would be to evict this family, dust their hands off, have done with it, slap each other on the back and congratulate each other on a job well done before even determining this mans guilt. ! People rightly chastise rioting and the rioters, looting and the looters but they should take a good, long and hard look at themselves before they preach such nonsense. People will always be chastised for the bad that they do but so rarely rewarded or even noticed for the good.[/p][/quote]Didnt take long for the 'pc' lobby to raise their objections to any tough stance shown against the rioters. The use of the word 'chastise' with regard to the mindless cretins says it all! Maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution.........[/p][/quote]If you knew anything at all about me (which you don't), you would know that I am FAR from PC but being ex-Forces and having served in conflict, I am quite aware of the sacrifice that men and women have made in order that freedom not be taken for granted: ! Tell me, as you appear keen to snipe with childish and ill-considered remarks. ! 1) Are you aware of the full facts in this case or merely from what you read in a newspaper? ! 2) Do you agree with the fundamental right of being innocent until proven Guilty? ! 2) That trial and punishment should be determined and presented to and determined by the Courts or a Jury of our peers having heard and deliberated all of the facts? ! 3) Do you think it right, that a Council Housing Officer can, in my opinion, predetermine the decision of a Court,pervert-the course-of-Justice and intimidate a witness, by publicly 'making an example' of a man who is still awaiting trial? ! It is perhaps ironic that the Council Leader Ravi Govindia carps on about Idi Amin following the expulsion of Ugandan Asians from Uganda yet presides over a Council that seeks to predetermine the sentence of a Court and find this man guilty before he has had a trial. ! As for Chastise, do you actually know or understand the meaning of the word? for your benefit it is below: ! Source- Oxford English: rebuke or reprimand severely, punish, especially by beating. ! ! Lastly, perhaps you should take a long hard look at your last statement " Maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution"; pretty ironic considering this man hasn't been convicted of anything; I'm not sure what I'm more concerned about, the behaviour of the Council to this mans family or that unfortunately, people like you have the RIGHT to vote.[/p][/quote]Now who's sniping?[/p][/quote]I'm not convinced that an opinion on your ability to vote, having been based on your crude 'hang 'em' first mentality from within your previous posts, is sniping; irrespective of that, I note that you have refrained from answering any of the questions that I put to you. Surely, as an upstanding member of Society as yourself, you would have no problem in answering them? wayneo
  • Score: 0

9:28pm Mon 15 Aug 11

Surreydon says...

wayneo
I have a feeling that whatever comment I make, whatever answer I give to your 'questions', you've already decided that I'm beyond redemption! so I'll let you carry on pontificating and I'll just drift away into obscurity.......
wayneo I have a feeling that whatever comment I make, whatever answer I give to your 'questions', you've already decided that I'm beyond redemption! so I'll let you carry on pontificating and I'll just drift away into obscurity....... Surreydon
  • Score: 0

7:42pm Tue 16 Aug 11

wayneo says...

Surreydon wrote:
wayneo. I was going to leave this alone but your arrogance has left me a might testy. Of course I agree with the fundamental right of being innocent until proved guilty. To coin your phrase, you should take a hard look at my last statement. I said that "maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution". That means quite simply, all those convicted NOT those awaiting trial! Surely not too difficult to understand for a man with such a way with words! While it’s important that justice is seen to be done, let’s spare some thought for the people who lost their homes, their possessions & their businesses as a direct result of the rioters. Will they receive justice or just meaningless platitudes? I wonder! Now I find your final comment really offensive. Although you know nothing about me, you have the affront to voice concern about "people like me" having the right to vote"!! I've earned that right, unlike the rioters & their mentors!
There is a difference between being assertive, armed with the facts than overbearing, as such your charge of my being arrogant is unfounded. I did look at your statement, that's why I commented in response to it; I have made specific comments relating to this man, whose Mother is facing eviction because of an allegation (yet unproven) of criminal conduct against him, I stated that as that was the case, the move by Wandsworth Council to predetermine the verdict of the Court is wrong;
!
!
Your direct reponse to me, with my earlier post was:"Didnt take long for the 'pc' lobby to raise their objections to any tough stance shown against the rioters"
!
!
the "tough stance" to which you refer, is evicting a man, his Mother and his young Sister, based on what amounts still to an allegation of criminal conduct, in that context, this man is not a rioter until proven; odd thing that you should infer to my being a "mindless cretin" for supporting a notion of due process rather than succumbing to the bay of the Mob.
!
!
In light of the above, you provide an inconsistency in advocating harse punishment for the 'rioters' (an inference to the young man AWAITING trial), where you proclaim to "agree with the fundamental right of being innocent until proved guilty", yet accuse those like me who supports the same notion, of being PC and a cretin because I feel that the Council has jumped the gun by seeking an eviction notice against this family prior to any conviction.
!
The sly 'appeal to emotion' of "as for the sparing a thought for those people that have lost their homes, their possessions and their businesses" goes; do you really think that the chest-thumping, bandwagging efforts of a local Politician will serve those people well? What happens if Wandsworth get it wrong, that this man is found to be innocent? would making another family homeless because "one of them has been accused of a criminal act" help those people? He might be found Guilty, if that is so then again, Due process will follow and he will be punished as a result, if that means the family are evicted as a result then the Courts will have made that determination on the facts rather than the petty appeal to popularity of the mob. Until then, he's innocent until proven Guilty, a right that thankfully, we all have until we let idiot Politicians who wish to make a point, get their way.
[quote][p][bold]Surreydon[/bold] wrote: wayneo. I was going to leave this alone but your arrogance has left me a might testy. Of course I agree with the fundamental right of being innocent until proved guilty. To coin your phrase, you should take a hard look at my last statement. I said that "maybe we should let all those convicted off with a caution". That means quite simply, all those convicted NOT those awaiting trial! Surely not too difficult to understand for a man with such a way with words! While it’s important that justice is seen to be done, let’s spare some thought for the people who lost their homes, their possessions & their businesses as a direct result of the rioters. Will they receive justice or just meaningless platitudes? I wonder! Now I find your final comment really offensive. Although you know nothing about me, you have the affront to voice concern about "people like me" having the right to vote"!! I've earned that right, unlike the rioters & their mentors![/p][/quote]There is a difference between being assertive, armed with the facts than overbearing, as such your charge of my being arrogant is unfounded. I did look at your statement, that's why I commented in response to it; I have made specific comments relating to this man, whose Mother is facing eviction because of an allegation (yet unproven) of criminal conduct against him, I stated that as that was the case, the move by Wandsworth Council to predetermine the verdict of the Court is wrong; ! ! Your direct reponse to me, with my earlier post was:"Didnt take long for the 'pc' lobby to raise their objections to any tough stance shown against the rioters" ! ! the "tough stance" to which you refer, is evicting a man, his Mother and his young Sister, based on what amounts still to an allegation of criminal conduct, in that context, this man is not a rioter until proven; odd thing that you should infer to my being a "mindless cretin" for supporting a notion of due process rather than succumbing to the bay of the Mob. ! ! In light of the above, you provide an inconsistency in advocating harse punishment for the 'rioters' (an inference to the young man AWAITING trial), where you proclaim to "agree with the fundamental right of being innocent until proved guilty", yet accuse those like me who supports the same notion, of being PC and a cretin because I feel that the Council has jumped the gun by seeking an eviction notice against this family prior to any conviction. ! The sly 'appeal to emotion' of "as for the sparing a thought for those people that have lost their homes, their possessions and their businesses" goes; do you really think that the chest-thumping, bandwagging efforts of a local Politician will serve those people well? What happens if Wandsworth get it wrong, that this man is found to be innocent? would making another family homeless because "one of them has been accused of a criminal act" help those people? He might be found Guilty, if that is so then again, Due process will follow and he will be punished as a result, if that means the family are evicted as a result then the Courts will have made that determination on the facts rather than the petty appeal to popularity of the mob. Until then, he's innocent until proven Guilty, a right that thankfully, we all have until we let idiot Politicians who wish to make a point, get their way. wayneo
  • Score: 0

3:13pm Wed 17 Aug 11

Surreydon says...

wayneo
You really have got a problem! I want to leave this be but you won't let it go! I NEVER described you as a cretin, that description was aimed at the rioters....as you well know. You seem to think that you can call me whatever you like! Apparently I've got a hang 'em high mentality & I'm sly & overbearing. You sneer at me instead of offering reasoned comments. Shame on you!!! Thankfully you are not representative of the majority of people on this forum who will debate reasonably & responsibly.
wayneo You really have got a problem! I want to leave this be but you won't let it go! I NEVER described you as a cretin, that description was aimed at the rioters....as you well know. You seem to think that you can call me whatever you like! Apparently I've got a hang 'em high mentality & I'm sly & overbearing. You sneer at me instead of offering reasoned comments. Shame on you!!! Thankfully you are not representative of the majority of people on this forum who will debate reasonably & responsibly. Surreydon
  • Score: 0

7:37pm Wed 17 Aug 11

wayneo says...

Surreydon wrote:
wayneo You really have got a problem! I want to leave this be but you won't let it go! I NEVER described you as a cretin, that description was aimed at the rioters....as you well know. You seem to think that you can call me whatever you like! Apparently I've got a hang 'em high mentality & I'm sly & overbearing. You sneer at me instead of offering reasoned comments. Shame on you!!! Thankfully you are not representative of the majority of people on this forum who will debate reasonably & responsibly.
So now you want a debate????? You change your tune quicker than Tom O'Connor; you want to leave this be because you don't have any answers, like a rabbit caught in headlights you have ridiculed yourself then play the victim; odd thing, that you have become so precious when criticism is levelled you yet your idea of 'debate', 'reasonable' and responsible is to level accusations of being PC because one dares to ask that due process is respected against a family that has been threatened with eviction prior to any conviction; if you are going to ask for a firm-hand, don't whine and moan when you get it in return.
[quote][p][bold]Surreydon[/bold] wrote: wayneo You really have got a problem! I want to leave this be but you won't let it go! I NEVER described you as a cretin, that description was aimed at the rioters....as you well know. You seem to think that you can call me whatever you like! Apparently I've got a hang 'em high mentality & I'm sly & overbearing. You sneer at me instead of offering reasoned comments. Shame on you!!! Thankfully you are not representative of the majority of people on this forum who will debate reasonably & responsibly.[/p][/quote]So now you want a debate????? You change your tune quicker than Tom O'Connor; you want to leave this be because you don't have any answers, like a rabbit caught in headlights you have ridiculed yourself then play the victim; odd thing, that you have become so precious when criticism is levelled you yet your idea of 'debate', 'reasonable' and responsible is to level accusations of being PC because one dares to ask that due process is respected against a family that has been threatened with eviction prior to any conviction; if you are going to ask for a firm-hand, don't whine and moan when you get it in return. wayneo
  • Score: 0

10:50pm Tue 6 Sep 11

janee says...

Getting away from personalities and back to the case, at what stage of breaking the law do we start to evict people from council tenancies (always assuming, of course, that they are the tenant). Do we evict people for being drunk and disorderly, or driving whilst on a mobile phone or when the crime is over the borders in Lambeth or even further afield?

Whether or not the young man is found guilty, the eviction still would open a very dodgy precedence.

In addition, would it be fair, if he were to be convicted, that he and his family were to be punished more severely than someone behaving in exactly the same way but whose family owned their own home and, therefore, could not be evicted?

As usual Wandsworth Council's logic is lacking and prejudicial.
Getting away from personalities and back to the case, at what stage of breaking the law do we start to evict people from council tenancies (always assuming, of course, that they are the tenant). Do we evict people for being drunk and disorderly, or driving whilst on a mobile phone or when the crime is over the borders in Lambeth or even further afield? Whether or not the young man is found guilty, the eviction still would open a very dodgy precedence. In addition, would it be fair, if he were to be convicted, that he and his family were to be punished more severely than someone behaving in exactly the same way but whose family owned their own home and, therefore, could not be evicted? As usual Wandsworth Council's logic is lacking and prejudicial. janee
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